View from the Back
Ramblings of a retiree in France
Things about France that surprised me: ability of the French to debate anything, anytime, anywhere
Did anyone ever tell you that running effective meetings in France was a little like herding cats? No? Well, take it from me, now you know.
With France being a time-flexible culture, be prepared for meetings to start 10-15 minutes late and run over by at least as much. Perhaps you expect meetings to serve as a forum to talk to specific, pre-defined points on an agenda in order to reach a firm decision or agree on a clear plan of action. You’re going to leave those expectations at the door – they don’t belong here!
What you’re likely to experience is that wonderful French passion for debate, discussion and intellectual challenge. The meeting agenda, if it even exists, can (and will) get hijacked at any moment. And boy can that discussion heat up, often with everyone talking at once. It’s a nightmare if, like me, you’re the minute taker!
Where does this come from?
Students in the French school system are taught to disagree openly (thèse, anti-thèse, synthèse) and hence the French intuitively follow a similar pattern in any meeting. Conflict and confrontation are seen as a way to deconstruct an idea, challenge it to the maximum to see how robust it really is (bringing any risks and contradictions to the forefront), ultimately resulting in an even better idea. If it’s your idea in the firing line, remember: it is not YOU who is being attacked, it is the IDEA, so don’t take it personally.
Bear in mind the meeting may end with a simple “et voilà.” No action points. No next steps. No recap of the key decisions taken. Just like that, meeting participants are meant to have understood all of this implicitly.
Also bear in mind that any decision taken in the meeting can change depending on who the boss, or M Le President, meets in the corridor afterwards or during their next pause-café. At the end of the day, it’s the boss who decides, and they may be inclined to pursue their own personal goals after meetings. Voilà, c’est comme ça.
Love of intellectual debate
The French reputation for being intellectuals started in the Middle Ages, when Paris was the European centre for education, and it continued into the oh-so-cool philosophers and writers of the 1950s and ’60s. But the idea is still very present today. The main reason there is a grain of truth to this French stereotype is that philosophy is a compulsory subject in French schools.
During their final year in secondary school, French students start learning to use their judgment, ask the big questions and study the history of ideas. Descartes, Plato, Sartre and Kant are all part of the curriculum. The philosophy exam is the most feared among students at the Bac – the French exam students take before going to college – an indication of just how dedicated France is to encouraging its citizens to think big.
Consequently, the French take “le talk show” very seriously. The clash of ideas has been part of France’s national identity for centuries, and the intellectual – almost anyone with an air of gravitas and the confidence to opine on any subject in three points – enjoys a special status in society and a place of prominence on television. One of my favourites is “Match of ze Day.” In fact I love the very knowledgeable, thorough discussion and disection of all my favourite sports on French television before, during and after the race or game.
Love this post. Wish we had a practicing intellectual class in the USA. We have a pundit class which often not the same thing.
LikeLiked by 2 people
It’s great
LikeLiked by 1 person
🤓
LikeLiked by 1 person
Pingback: Things about France that surprised me: ability of the French to debate anything, anytime, anywhere – A very interesting article that I wanted to share. – susiesopinions
Shared this interesting post.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks
LikeLike
Enjoyed this post, very informative about French ways or culture. Thanks for sharing ❤️.
LikeLiked by 1 person
My pleasure Tekwor
LikeLike
well handle coming from A French. We are mostly existentialism of Jean Paul Sartre with a bit of Rousseau and Voltaire and even Victor Hugo. Quite a group! We say vive la différence because you will find different here is good. Our meeting hour is just a guide not a specific time as in anglo countries which i have lived , here if we tell you come at 15h for a meeting we do as we said too in America, American time or Latin time! oops here we are overall Latins with a few mixes of the melting pot of Europe. The French we can be complicated but all follow us see all the big world organisation even have French letters COI FIFA FIBA etc etc. Cheers
LikeLiked by 2 people
😎
LikeLike
Hmmm…I’ll keep this in mind.
LikeLiked by 2 people
😎
LikeLike
Things about France that surprised me: ability of the French to debate anything, anytime, anywhere
LikeLiked by 1 person
This is something I really admire about the French culture. I wish we studied philosophy at school- guess it’s never too late to start.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Indeed
LikeLiked by 1 person
Sounds a bit like our Landcare meetings 😀
LikeLiked by 2 people
😎
LikeLiked by 1 person
This is well observed. This propensity to discuss, to argue is even more apparent in international contexts, with mixed staff. What I have often observed is that after having discussed, or even contested, it is often the French who come up with proposals, viable or not, but there is imagination in them and not just figures and rules to follow as it is the case for much people.
LikeLiked by 2 people
I agree! Thorough debate means the proposals are often more robust and there’s much less settling for least worst option.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Interesting indeed, but not super surprising given how many philosophers were French and how much of the Enlightenment’s ideas came from France. The stereotype is that the French will argue and complain about anything after all, LOL.
You almost make it sound like political debate on Reddit though. 😀 I’m all for the open discussion and debate of ideas, but with some civility to it; more akin to ancient Greek schools of philosophy. I also agree that we need more critical thinking (and economics) classes in the rest of the West. Maybe then people could see when they’re being BS’ed by the media and their leaders.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Good points
LikeLiked by 1 person
I never knew! And, not that I do, I feel grateful I do not have French meetings. 🙂
LikeLiked by 2 people
I exaggerate of course and it’s fine once you get used to them.
LikeLiked by 2 people
You should write a book about us because your perception is bloody true ! (it remembered me “a year in the merde” by John Clarke).
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you! Maybe I will.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I was lucky that my meetings days were over before I bought my house in Sigoules 🙂
LikeLike
My first exposure was as Secretary of my cycle club but now I’ve gotten used to it and rather enjoy the rigorous debate. Do you still have your place in Sigoules?
LikeLiked by 1 person
No. It fell foul of squatters and I sold it 6 years ago
LikeLiked by 1 person
I guess my Mom is French then! 😆
LikeLiked by 2 people
😎
LikeLike
If only we ‘discussed’ things. 🙂
LikeLiked by 1 person
Nothing the French love more
LikeLiked by 1 person
We could certainly use more of this in the US, where — malheureusement — the prevailing trend seems to be anti-intellectualism.
LikeLiked by 1 person
😎
LikeLike
I’m not good with confrontation or conflict, so I wouldn’t do so well in these meetings! But, in saying that, debate is also good!
LikeLiked by 2 people
The good thing is that the French leave any confrontation behind when they leave the meeting.
LikeLiked by 2 people
Oh that’s good 🦋🤍😜
LikeLiked by 1 person
Yup, something else I learned when I got there.
‘Il te fault apprendre râler.”
yeah…
LikeLike
😎
LikeLiked by 1 person